Croc 3: Stone of the Gobbos [Cancelled - PSX / PS2 / XBOX / GameCube]

Baron Dante to me was terryifing but exciting , after seeing Croc 2′s ending he returns and then didnt continue, sad.

I don’t know about Croc 2 but the first one was a overhyped, mediocre platform that satisfied mainly people who didn’t owned a N64 to play Super Mario 64.

Oh god, I never knew there was a third one planned. I wish it would’ve been released, but many Jump n Run sequels got cancelled I guess.

Hello there. I run a Croc-specific website, and was pointed to this article by a member of my site’s forum. I was skeptical to say the least of the original version of this article, as it did not stack up against the facts. Another member pointed out that the article has since been changed, and as it still doesn’t jive with the facts, I feel compelled to comment on it.

Now, I should qualify this by noting that as a youngster, I was such a Croc fan that I won a contest run by a UK magazine, in which the prize was an all-expenses-paid trip to visit Argonaut Software Ltd., and see and play the then-release-candidate version of Croc 2 (specifically, the one from early May, which exhibited a few small bugs that were to be fixed prior to sending the game to Sony for approval a few days later). The crew there were lovely, and after this event, I remained in contact with some of them for several years.

I hate to begin with something for which I do not have a citation, especially since I’m commenting on a suspicious article that has none itself, but my last contact with the company was in late 2004, a couple of months before Argonaut went bust, at which time I enquired as to whether another Croc game would ever be seen. I received a response – but sadly never saw any reason to keep it after Argonaut went under, or else I would provide it (I’ll make up for this in the rest of my comment!) – which basically stated that it was something under consideration, and would most likely be for the PlayStation 2 “now that it’s getting into younger hands”, or otherwise one of the two then-new handheld platforms (the Nintendo DS and the Sony PlayStation Portable), which Argonaut had at that time just added mention to their website of being licensed to develop for. My understanding from what was said (I’ve paraphrased it above to the best of my recollection) was that the PlayStation 2 was being considered because older siblings were moving to other hardware (or had little time for gaming at all due to growing up) and the consoles were being handed down to the group that was considered to be the target market for the Croc games.

That said, what I learned back then is corroborated by some posts made by a chap called Borman here, who seems to have encountered information that matches up to the e-mail I had – http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?45494-Croc-3-may-soon-leak .

With that out of the way, I would like to comment on particular points of note from the article on this site;

“A sequel, Croc 2, was released in 1999 but the third chapter of the series was never released, even if development was started. The game was called Croc 3: Stone of the Gobbos (also known as Croc 3: Barons Revenge and Croc 3: Croc Returns! during development). It was to launch on Playstation 2, Gamecube and Xbox in 2005.” – A 2005 release date would have been very difficult indeed, since the very notion of it was only being *considered* in late 2004!

“The game would of been a direct sequel to the events of Croc 2, and would feature 2 player on all 3 platforms. In this game, Croc was to yet again, be faced with stopping Baron Dante and saving the Gobbos. However this time Dante has a spell that is not able to be stopped unless Croc finds the Sacred “Stone of the Gobbos”.” – This is some interesting fan-fiction, but as far as I’m aware, that’s all it is.

“Sadly after Argonaut Software closed in 2004, the IP for Croc was sold to Zenimax Media Inc, and Zenimax Media had Mud Duck Productions continue development of Croc 3: Stone Of The Gobbos. However, the game was cancelled after trouble with the developer and thus, ended the Croc Franchise.” – This is easily proven to be incorrect – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3965937.stm . The IP was never sold to anyone else after Argonaut met its end. As this BBC News article points out, one week after Argonaut went bust, Jez San bought back most of the company and its assets. This included two satellite companies, and the Croc franchise. He then had one of the satellite companies – Morpheme Mobile Ltd. – make a new Croc game, “Croc Mobile: Jungle Rumble”, which was released a few months later. It was a mobile telephone title, as, back in 2004 and 2005, some were claiming that this was the future (they were, perhaps, ahead of their time).

I was contacted about this at the time, and posted a note of it on my Croc website’s forum on January 6th 2005 – http://crocfans.proboards.com/thread/34/page/1/croc-returns .

Below are some archived links to support the above information/dates further;

http://web.archive.org/web/20050421032928/http://www.morpheme.co.uk/ – Morpheme’s website in early 2005. This is the first archive I could find showing Croc Mobile: Jungle Rumble (see the sidebar at the left).

And – http://web.archive.org/web/20051219132332/http://www.morpheme.co.uk/game.jsp?projectId=23 – This is the first archive of the Croc Mobile: Jungle Rumble project page, also from 2005.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051026180732/http://www.morpheme.co.uk/jr_microsite/index.html – To further show that the rights were not sold to Zenimax, here is the Croc Mobile: Jungle Rumble micro-site, complete with the copyright data. Note that it belonged to Morpheme Mobile Ltd.; Had the rights been sold to someone else, licensing information would have been mentioned here, but they weren’t sold to anyone else, so they’re simply correctly attributed to Jez San’s company.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060409070546/http://www.morpheme.co.uk/ – Morpheme’s website in 2006. This is the first archive showing Croc Mobile Pinball.

And the earliest archive I could find of the Croc Mobile Pinball project page – http://web.archive.org/web/20060513184233/http://www.morpheme.co.uk/game.jsp?projectId=25 .

http://web.archive.org/web/20060306230826/http://www.morpheme.co.uk/newsletter7/index.html – This is a 2006 Morpheme newsletter, announcing Croc Mobile: Volcanic Panic, which was a sequel to Croc Mobile: Jungle Rumble.

As you can see, the Croc series went on well past 2004!

Regarding Mud Duck Productions, they have been a publisher for several years, and the last game they ever developed was released a year before Argonaut went bust, which makes it seem unlikely that they would have been involved with developing Croc 3, even if we ignore the fact that the game never began development at all, and that the rights remained with Jez San after Argonaut met its untimely demise.

As noted above, I hate giving information for which I cannot provide a citation, but in 2007, I was contacted by Morpheme Mobile Ltd. and offered some Croc promotional items (posters, banners, and that Croc standee that used to stand in Argonaut’s lobby – I’m sure someone from Morpheme, if they saw this, could verify that they allowed me to have these items) that they were removing from their offices, because they weren’t making any further Croc Mobile games and no longer needed to promote them. When I arrived to collect them, they mentioned that the rights were now back with Jez San personally. As far as I’m aware, that’s where they still are.

In fact… http://www.zenimax.com/legal_info.htm – Argonaut’s only link with Zenimax is this. Zenimax merely published a couple of Argonaut’s Xbox games – albeit in North America only – before Argonaut went bust.

“The world shown in the render below is the Croc 3 castle hub. In Croc 3, rather than the former games, Argonaut Software were using Full Explorable Hub Worlds sorta like Spyro The Dragon. This way it was more easy for younger kids to play the game. Some of the Croc 3 inspiration was coming from Spyro Year Of The Dragon (One of the biggest being hub worlds with portals).” – But Croc 2 had these hub worlds, already. Moreover, the image provided isn’t especially convincing – it isn’t difficult to apply an “oil paint” filter to something in order to obscure its origins, after all.

“Croc 3 started development in the summer of 2001.” – Not according to the e-mail exchange I had in 2004, which, as noted earlier, is corroborated by those posts by Borman that I linked to above.

“Croc 3 was having trouble finding a publisher.” – Not at all likely. Fox Interactive, as far as I know, would have continued publishing Croc titles, as the series had been a good seller.

“They had contacted Fox, and they wanted no part of Croc 3 due to the sales of Croc 2.” – This is not likely. Croc 2 sold over one million copies, and whilst this is less than Croc: Legend of the Gobbos’ 3 to 4 million, it’s still nothing to sneeze at!

“First it was in development for Dreamcast, Playstation, Playstation 2, Xbox, Gamecube and PC, however with the failing sales of Dreamcast (And due to Croc 2 never appearing on sega), Argonaut stopped working on the Dreamcast version and focused more on the PS,PS2,XB and GC versions. They later cancelled the PC version as well.” – To the best of my knowledge, Argonaut dropped support for the Dreamcast in 2000, after releasing only two games for it. The Dreamcast port of Croc 2 would have been their third. There is very little chance that a further Croc game would have been developed for the Dreamcast after the Dreamcast port of Croc 2 was cancelled ( http://uk.ign.com/articles/2000/08/04/fox-confirms-croc-2-cancellation ), as, if my memory serves me correctly, that port was meant to test the waters on the machine for games like that. It’s self-evident that it didn’t work out.

“The next problem Argonaut ran into was the voice actor for croc had no wish to return to the role. So they would need to recast.” – This is highly unlikely. As Nic Cusworth (lead designer of Croc: Legend of the Gobbos), under his handle “medulla”, commented here – http://crocfans.proboards.com/thread/8/ginger-soda – Jonathan Aris was proud of his work.

“What started to take more time was the Playstation 1 version. This was due to the fact that Argonaut were using croc 1/2 version of BRender because BRender for Croc 3 was not compatible on Playstation 1 due to the “Next Gen” graphics. The new console versions would feature top of the line graphics developed in house to push them to their limits, while the PS1 version was simply the same graphics as croc 2.” – It was only ever considered for the PlayStation 2, and possibly the then-new DS and PSP, for which Argonaut had just recently become licensed to develop for in late 2004.

“The reason Argonaut were insisting to release Croc 3 on PS1 was to keep the trilogy in line with each other on Playstation. The series was always planned as a trilogy and the third was supposed to be the final one.” – This is incorrect. The series was not planned to be a trilogy at all, to the very best of my knowledge and personal experience. When I visited Argonaut, as noted at the beginning of my comment, myself and the others present were informed at one point during the studio tour that Croc: Legend of the Gobbos (the first game) came about as a result of re-working a Yoshi game (described to us as a “dinosaur racing game”) for the SNES CD. I have a note of this on my website: http://croc.5u.com/facts.htm ; This page was later commented on – and, where necessary, corrected by (and you’ll note that no correction was raised with regard to the Yoshi game note) – Nic Cusworth: http://crocfans.proboards.com/thread/8/ginger-soda . The first Croc game got a sequel because it sold well, not because any trilogy was planned, and Croc 2′s credits hint at more games because it, too, was expected to be successful, as I understand it. Moreover, the fact that three more Croc titles were made after Croc 2/Argonaut going bust/Jez San buying back Argonaut’s assets would seem to disprove the notion that they intended to stop making them.

“Croc 3 on PS2, GC and Xbox would of been 2 player. Player 1 was Croc, and player 2 was a new crocodile named Ginger, who was a love interest to croc. (Kinda like a Amy/Sonic relationship). To appease players who hated multiplayer, Ginger would only appear in the story IF you were in 2 player. If not, she would disappear.” – As with the earlier part about the game’s title, plot, and so on, this is some interesting fan-fiction, but there is nothing proving that it is any more than that, and a number of things suggesting that it is just that.

“As for the soundtrack, Justin Scharvona from croc 1, who composed the C1 soundtrack would make a return to compose it in this game.” – This is the only likely comment in the entire article. ;)

“Thanks to former Argonaut Employees from the Croc 3 Team for the contribution!” – It would certainly be interesting to know who these team members are…

I note that the comment above mine seems to allude to some involvement with this article, so I’d like to comment on a couple of things about that, too, if that’s quite alright;

“Eventually though, zenimax bought the license because they got interested.” – As noted above, with citations, after Argonaut went bust, Jez San bought it all back.

“Mud Duck was given greenlight to complete the development, but mud duck was taking too long and making little progress. So with that, Croc 3 was canned by Zenimax, which was also fatal for mud duck which in time closed them because croc 3 got canned.” – But Zenimax never owned Croc, and Mud Duck are still around… http://www.mudduckgames.com/

“James has a proto but he is legally not allowed to show info on it because zenimax contacted him and told him that he cant share it just incase they decide to in the future revive croc for future use. So he cant share much, only a possible very very small amount of images, but he can share info.” – I’m sorry to say that, as I’m sure many on a site such as this have, I’ve heard the “I know a person who has a prototype but isn’t allowed to share it, but can tell you stuff about it” yarn more times than I can count (I’m amazed that it still keeps on going!). Given all of the information and citations provided above, I would have to say that I find the existence of a prototype of a game that was only talked about by its owners, that’s supposedly come from a company that didn’t buy the rights to it because the owners of the rights kept them, with the non-owners asking for the prototype not to be talked about, in case they revive a franchise that they don’t own in the future, to be very unlikely, I’m afraid.

Your anonymity policy is very sensible. It’s just a shame that it seems to be being taken advantage of in this case, in order to create an article that seems to be a complete work of fiction.

Anyway, I’m glad to have been able to provide you some facts, with citations. ;)